tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post41112545816395989..comments2024-02-15T22:31:01.027-07:00Comments on Business SOA: Why BPM screws up SOASteve Joneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18324989580856894788noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-74842457746263267962011-03-30T19:31:43.925-07:002011-03-30T19:31:43.925-07:00I am not sure why we should tie two different thin...I am not sure why we should tie two different things. SOA as already pointed is architectural aspect whereas BPM suits only when there is some workflow or orchestration required. <br /><br />To be specific SOA should help define the services required to business and BPM is beyond orchestration. It is continous monitoring and should aid the improvement of business. It is specifically useful where Sujatha Dantulurinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-76078161674994419622010-09-15T08:02:39.384-07:002010-09-15T08:02:39.384-07:00Siddharth said...
A service can be functional or ...Siddharth said... <br />A service can be functional or technical. A functional service can internally use a set of technical services to expose some business functionality. A BPM is an orchestration mechanism which represents a business process by wiring together functional services <br /><br />I think this guy just defined the bone structure.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393239206517954710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-81505588972040021962009-02-20T03:33:00.000-07:002009-02-20T03:33:00.000-07:00A service can be functional or technical. A functi...A service can be functional or technical. A functional service can internally use a set of technical services to expose some business functionality. A BPM is an orchestration mechanism which represents a business process by wiring together functional servicesSiddharthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03768709600507920334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-35703392882956312382008-10-13T09:00:00.000-07:002008-10-13T09:00:00.000-07:00SOA isn't all about orchestrating multiple service...SOA isn't <B>all</B> about orchestrating multiple services. Its about <I>thinking</I> about systems in a service-oriented way. This means that the thought is service first, orchestration is second (or even later) as it is about <I>implementation</I>.<BR/><BR/>BPM is a potential implementation approach for capabilities in a service. That makes good BPM and starts from good SOA. Starting from aSteve Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18324989580856894788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-90285378822797861112008-10-13T08:42:00.000-07:002008-10-13T08:42:00.000-07:00Hi Steve, SOA is all about orchestrating multiple ...Hi Steve, SOA is all about orchestrating multiple services if you call services are containers for implementation. Another word is SOA is for composing multiple application to provide one single granular Business Service. It is easy to mistakenly view SOA the same as services are containers for implementation (WebService). That is why the statement "BPM screws up SOA" is mistakenly driven. Hope Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-66341879983292155452008-02-05T13:59:00.000-07:002008-02-05T13:59:00.000-07:00I agree with Zen. Weather service=function is not ...I agree with Zen. Weather service=function is not a valid question without the definition of granularity. If it is a business 'function' which adding value to the process, I'd call it a service.<BR/><BR/>Chris<BR/>--------------------------<BR/>http://www.bizsharp.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-86076920587440339842007-08-06T12:35:00.000-07:002007-08-06T12:35:00.000-07:00Comments in my blog post http://blogs.ittoolbox.co...Comments in my blog post <BR/><BR/>http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/business/archives/bpm-and-soa-18156Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-31962715851617822372007-06-27T20:03:00.000-07:002007-06-27T20:03:00.000-07:00I agree that a service is not a step of process. O...I agree that a service is not a step of process. On the otherhand, it also depends on the level of granularity the steps are being defined. If the steps are defined at 'capability' level, i.e. the 'WHAT' rather than the 'HOW', then that's equate to the service. An example, an order fulfillment process involves part picking, then manufacturing, then delivery. While each is a high level step in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-35432189206813103882007-06-26T14:19:00.000-07:002007-06-26T14:19:00.000-07:00Hi Steve,Nice article. Because of the length, I po...Hi Steve,<BR/><BR/>Nice article. Because of the length, I <A HREF="http://www.theenterprisearchitect.eu/archive/2007/06/26/Why_BPM_doesn’t_have_to_scre" REL="nofollow">posted a reaction</A><BR/>on your article on my own blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-74547904340873249602007-06-24T01:28:00.000-07:002007-06-24T01:28:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jack van Hoofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073941747649739657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-49380000058391966582007-06-23T01:42:00.000-07:002007-06-23T01:42:00.000-07:00:)On Operation though the challenge is that Operat...:)<BR/><BR/>On Operation though the challenge is that Operation (again a singluar) is pretty much still a single step. Now clearly in WCF you don't have to build it that way, but what I have seen is that people when starting from the process side tend to produce single step artefacts (the BPM tools pretty much mandate this for the actual process for instance).<BR/><BR/>Its one of those strange Steve Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18324989580856894788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-64050173225923220492007-06-22T07:15:00.000-07:002007-06-22T07:15:00.000-07:00To make it easier for people that are far above CR...To make it easier for people that are far above CRM in enlightenment, but might not know WCF, I have now tried to make it bleeding obvious that the term "service" for simplicity is used to talk about specific business steps without having to write that over and over again.<BR/><BR/>I have also moved this repeated "service" term definition to the first paragraph: "the idiom service here is an [Kjell-Sverre Jerijærvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13654217591841196465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-30035752343389640962007-06-18T12:35:00.000-07:002007-06-18T12:35:00.000-07:00The point I was making was about the idea that ser...The point I was making was about the idea that service = function step, which is what any process based view of the world tends to feel comfortable with. The same applies when looking at single events as being the critical element.<BR/><BR/>Fundamentally an approach based on singularities is going to struggle because it removes structure and makes granularity very hard.Steve Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18324989580856894788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11168006.post-62536067672345235482007-06-18T03:07:00.000-07:002007-06-18T03:07:00.000-07:00Hi Steve,Ik think there are more powerfull constru...Hi Steve,<BR/><BR/>Ik think there are more powerfull constructs then BPM to model business processes.<BR/><BR/>At the business level processes are defined as repeatable and predictable reactions on predefined events. There may be flows recognized... or not.<BR/><BR/>Procedural algoritm-like BPM is one way to link these processes to technology. But there are other ways to do so. Think of Jack van Hoofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073941747649739657noreply@blogger.com